Comments on: Published Research Synopsis: Greenland Melting Finally Measured Directly http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html Chronicling and Commenting on Human Progress Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:11:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Marion Delgado http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-21704 Marion Delgado Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:16:47 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-21704 I wonder if that's not saying it's both not significant enough to matter and also being ignored, if that's what it means, systematically. When you're on a diet if you always weigh yourself clothed, it doesn't really matter if you weigh your clothes separately. You're getting a good estimate of your weight and you know fairly precisely what the changes are. I wonder if that’s not saying it’s both not significant enough to matter and also being ignored, if that’s what it means, systematically.

When you’re on a diet if you always weigh yourself clothed, it doesn’t really matter if you weigh your clothes separately. You’re getting a good estimate of your weight and you know fairly precisely what the changes are.

]]> By: Bruce http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4256 Bruce Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:57:11 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4256 Great to see a new PRS - good topic too. I took a printed copy to lunch along with the Aug/Sept "Air & Space" mag which happens to have a related article on ICESat (does laser altimeter measurements) and GRACE. Interesting details about NASA glaciaologist Jay Zwally who pushed for ICESat but also does "ground truth" visits to glaciers in Greenland (inserting markers with GPS transmitters). He also proposed the theory that the rapid response of the glaciers being due to melting surface water leaking under them and serving as lubricant to accelerate their flow toward the warm sea (ice is too poor a conductor for deep ice to respond quickly to rising air temps). I see this article is on line: http://www.airspacemag.com/issues/2006/august-september/hotsats.php?page=1 Thanks, Bruce Great to see a new PRS - good topic too. I took a printed copy to lunch along with the Aug/Sept “Air & Space” mag which happens to have a related article on ICESat (does laser altimeter measurements) and GRACE. Interesting details about NASA glaciaologist Jay Zwally who pushed for ICESat but also does “ground truth” visits to glaciers in Greenland (inserting markers with GPS transmitters). He also proposed the theory that the rapid response of the glaciers being due to melting surface water leaking under them and serving as lubricant to accelerate their flow toward the warm sea (ice is too poor a conductor for deep ice to respond quickly to rising air temps). I see this article is on line:
http://www.airspacemag.com/issues/2006/august-september/hotsats.php?page=1

Thanks,
Bruce

]]> By: Anthony Kendall http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4244 Anthony Kendall Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:18:19 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4244 I'll be changing the header graphic to something more appropriate once I get the chance, but I thought it was soothing and pleasant for the time being. I’ll be changing the header graphic to something more appropriate once I get the chance, but I thought it was soothing and pleasant for the time being.

]]> By: Anthony Kendall http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4238 Anthony Kendall Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:09:29 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4238 Thanks for the legwork Tom! That 41 km/yr does sound very fast for a long-term rate, though I do remember blogging about the wandering North Pole <a href="http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/no-more-auroras-in-alaska.html" rel="nofollow">last year</a>. It is pretty near to Resolute, they do a relatively brisk "Magnetic North Pole" tourist business there, actually. "Hey kids, we're going to the magnetic north pole!--Ooh! What's there dad?--Water, and a vertical compass needle, kids!" You are braver than I with Wikipedia. I have yet to venture a toe into that dark pool of "knowledge". Thanks for the legwork Tom!

That 41 km/yr does sound very fast for a long-term rate, though I do remember blogging about the wandering North Pole last year.

It is pretty near to Resolute, they do a relatively brisk “Magnetic North Pole” tourist business there, actually. “Hey kids, we’re going to the magnetic north pole!–Ooh! What’s there dad?–Water, and a vertical compass needle, kids!”

You are braver than I with Wikipedia. I have yet to venture a toe into that dark pool of “knowledge”.

]]> By: Tom http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4236 Tom Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:45:01 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4236 Oh, the 41km/yr seemed really fast, and Wikipedia didn't site their sources, (of course), so I did some checking around. Here are the results: 11km/yr currently: http://www.tgo.uit.no/articl/roadto.html 7.5km/yr over past 150 years: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/09/D8ED22880.html and about 100 copies of the same story... I guess Wikipedia must have read this: 'The pole kept going during the 20th century, north at an average speed of 10 km per year, lately accelerating "to 40 km per year," says Newitt.' http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm Currently it is near Resolute Bay, Canada (where you stayed before your FMars trip???) http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm There you go. Should I add it to Wikipedia? I'd rather not mess around with stuff I know nothing about... Oh, the 41km/yr seemed really fast, and Wikipedia didn’t site their sources, (of course), so I did some checking around. Here are the results:

11km/yr currently:
http://www.tgo.uit.no/articl/roadto.html

7.5km/yr over past 150 years:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/09/D8ED22880.html
and about 100 copies of the same story…

I guess Wikipedia must have read this:
‘The pole kept going during the 20th century, north at an average speed of 10 km per year, lately accelerating “to 40 km per year,” says Newitt.’
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm

Currently it is near Resolute Bay, Canada (where you stayed before your FMars trip???)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm

There you go. Should I add it to Wikipedia? I’d rather not mess around with stuff I know nothing about…

]]> By: Tom http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4235 Tom Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:31:55 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4235 Like the new header graphic. Like the new header graphic.

]]> By: taoist http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4218 taoist Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:18:24 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4218 Yeah, that sentence is a bit hard to parse, isn't it? Thanks for pointing it out. Yeah, that sentence is a bit hard to parse, isn’t it?

Thanks for pointing it out.

]]> By: Anthony Kendall http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4216 Anthony Kendall Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:07:33 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4216 taoist, Here is the relevant quote from the article <blockquote>GRACE does not recover <i>l</i>=1 Stokes coefficients (representing displacements of the Earth’s centre of mass), so we removed those coefficients from the averaging function</blockquote> I assume that this means that the effect has been accounted for, rather than simply ignored. However, I am beyond my expertise to be able to interpret that sentence precisely. Also, notice how closely the GRACE estimates correspond to the estimates derived from satellite-derived ice-surface velocities and radar-obtained thicknesses of the various lobes (248 to 224 km<sup>3</sup>/yr). That is fairly strong evidence that the estimates are robust, though of course it's not conclusive. taoist,
Here is the relevant quote from the article
GRACE does not recover l=1 Stokes coefficients (representing displacements of the Earth’s centre of mass), so we removed those coefficients from the averaging function

I assume that this means that the effect has been accounted for, rather than simply ignored. However, I am beyond my expertise to be able to interpret that sentence precisely.

Also, notice how closely the GRACE estimates correspond to the estimates derived from satellite-derived ice-surface velocities and radar-obtained thicknesses of the various lobes (248 to 224 km3/yr). That is fairly strong evidence that the estimates are robust, though of course it’s not conclusive.

]]> By: taoist http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4215 taoist Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:49:52 +0000 http://www.anthonares.net/2006/09/published-research-synopsis-greenland-melting-finally-measured-directly.html#comment-4215 I'm curious, does this study take into effect the changing specific density of the Earth under Greenland due to the shifting of the magnetic north pole (which is moving away from Greenland at 41 km /yr)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole I think Greenland is losing ice, but I'm hesitant to trust a gravity based study of this because I know that some of the planetary physics regarding the core and specifically the area around the North Pole have only just started to be understood in the past couple years. I’m curious, does this study take into effect the changing specific density of the Earth under Greenland due to the shifting of the magnetic north pole (which is moving away from Greenland at 41 km /yr)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole

I think Greenland is losing ice, but I’m hesitant to trust a gravity based study of this because I know that some of the planetary physics regarding the core and specifically the area around the North Pole have only just started to be understood in the past couple years.

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