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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;The P.I.G. to Science&#8221;: Bethell&#8217;s Evolution Misunderstanding</title>
	<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html</link>
	<description>Chronicling and Commenting on Human Progress</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 70s_guy</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-36313</link>
		<author>70s_guy</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-36313</guid>
		<description>Go to Lubbockonline.com, forums, general discussion, 'Evolution is a fact' topic.  You will see this thing played out almost as above.  Most of it revolves around the word 'theory' and how the meaning differs between the layperson and scientist.  To me it is silly.  There is overwhelming support for evolution leading to the diversity of life we see today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go to Lubbockonline.com, forums, general discussion, &#8216;Evolution is a fact&#8217; topic.  You will see this thing played out almost as above.  Most of it revolves around the word &#8216;theory&#8217; and how the meaning differs between the layperson and scientist.  To me it is silly.  There is overwhelming support for evolution leading to the diversity of life we see today.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Kendall</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-32891</link>
		<author>Anthony Kendall</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-32891</guid>
		<description>someone,
I don't like responding to comments like yours, mainly because it's extremely rude to skim over an article, obviously not reading it thoroughly, and then post your judgment below.  But, I'll take your comment more seriously than you took my article and address it now.

Firstly, you're wrong.  I cited my evidence several times.  In fact, I did as well or better than Bethell on many points which is remarkable because his is a supposedly a work of non-fiction, and book reviews typically aren't required the same stringency.  

Aside from that, I refer to a body of scientific work that can easily be sought out on its own.  Your analogy to evidence for the feasibility of the flood would lead one down a twisted path of theological musings peppered with Biblical quotes.  My evidence has been compiled by people actually honestly trying to learn from the world, yours has been gathered by people imposing their limited understanding upon it.

If you'd really like to see overwhelming evidence, check out &lt;a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Talk Origins.com&lt;/a&gt; where every single one of these points is addressed in detail.  In addition, they have compiled a large database of evidence for evolution.

But, then you probably don't give a shit about actual empirical evidence.  Perhaps you should visit this &lt;a href="http://www.creationmuseum.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;museum,&lt;/a&gt; where the kind of "evidence" you respond to is on display.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someone,<br />
I don&#8217;t like responding to comments like yours, mainly because it&#8217;s extremely rude to skim over an article, obviously not reading it thoroughly, and then post your judgment below.  But, I&#8217;ll take your comment more seriously than you took my article and address it now.</p>
<p>Firstly, you&#8217;re wrong.  I cited my evidence several times.  In fact, I did as well or better than Bethell on many points which is remarkable because his is a supposedly a work of non-fiction, and book reviews typically aren&#8217;t required the same stringency.  </p>
<p>Aside from that, I refer to a body of scientific work that can easily be sought out on its own.  Your analogy to evidence for the feasibility of the flood would lead one down a twisted path of theological musings peppered with Biblical quotes.  My evidence has been compiled by people actually honestly trying to learn from the world, yours has been gathered by people imposing their limited understanding upon it.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d really like to see overwhelming evidence, check out <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/" rel="nofollow">Talk Origins.com</a> where every single one of these points is addressed in detail.  In addition, they have compiled a large database of evidence for evolution.</p>
<p>But, then you probably don&#8217;t give a shit about actual empirical evidence.  Perhaps you should visit this <a href="http://www.creationmuseum.org/" rel="nofollow">museum,</a> where the kind of &#8220;evidence&#8221; you respond to is on display.</p>
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		<title>By: someone</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-32877</link>
		<author>someone</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-32877</guid>
		<description>Dear evolutionists, you didn't cite any evidence as to why he was wrong, all you did essentially was say, "He's wrong because I said so." Me saying,

"Earth is only 13,000 years old because many generations of scientists have said so" is not evidence.

Or

"He clearly did not understood how the flood took place and was possible, and ignored much evidence which shows the flood clearly happened" isn't true merely because I said so.

Got that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear evolutionists, you didn&#8217;t cite any evidence as to why he was wrong, all you did essentially was say, &#8220;He&#8217;s wrong because I said so.&#8221; Me saying,</p>
<p>&#8220;Earth is only 13,000 years old because many generations of scientists have said so&#8221; is not evidence.</p>
<p>Or</p>
<p>&#8220;He clearly did not understood how the flood took place and was possible, and ignored much evidence which shows the flood clearly happened&#8221; isn&#8217;t true merely because I said so.</p>
<p>Got that?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-24815</link>
		<author>Matt</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-24815</guid>
		<description>And I wouldn't mind adding that when it comes to proof some scientists are still arguing over things like inductive theory as opposed to deductive theory, really a philisophical problem. Anyway theories of best explanation are in my opinion the best way to go, the reason being without hypothesising on a topic then no research into the validity of the theory can take place, also when the theory is replaced by varification/falsification via research we will see that the new theory is "the simplest answer that provides the most explanatory power" until something else comes along so there can be no issue with scientists pursuing science in this way. To be honest this is how its always been done think Newton to Einstein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I wouldn&#8217;t mind adding that when it comes to proof some scientists are still arguing over things like inductive theory as opposed to deductive theory, really a philisophical problem. Anyway theories of best explanation are in my opinion the best way to go, the reason being without hypothesising on a topic then no research into the validity of the theory can take place, also when the theory is replaced by varification/falsification via research we will see that the new theory is &#8220;the simplest answer that provides the most explanatory power&#8221; until something else comes along so there can be no issue with scientists pursuing science in this way. To be honest this is how its always been done think Newton to Einstein.</p>
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		<title>By: I&#8217;m Unique, Like Everybody Else. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Anthonares: &#8220;The P.I.G. to Science&#8221;: Bethell&#8217;s Evolution Misunderstanding</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-2560</link>
		<author>I&#8217;m Unique, Like Everybody Else. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Anthonares: &#8220;The P.I.G. to Science&#8221;: Bethell&#8217;s Evolution Misunderstanding</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 01:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-2560</guid>
		<description>[...] Anthonares: &#8220;The P.I.G. to Science&#8221;: Bethell&#8217;s Evolution Misunderstanding [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Anthonares: &#8220;The P.I.G. to Science&#8221;: Bethell&#8217;s Evolution Misunderstanding [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Kendall</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-90</link>
		<author>Anthony Kendall</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Mike,
I disagree with your statement about what scientists accept as "fact."  There is a lot of discussion about what scientists do, and there are some very outspoken ones who talk about scientific facts, but the truth is that science cannot produce anything other than observations and well-supported theories.  Evolution is such a very-well-supported theory, but it is not and will never be a fact in the colloquial sense of the word.  However, the scientific use of the word "theory" has a different meaning than the common usage as well.  

In response to your two points:
1) The return on investment from "speculative research" is extremely debatable, and I think your statement that very little, even relatively, is being returned is absolutely untrue.  Basic research led to the creation of silicon microchips, an invention that has revolutionized our entire world.  I could surely list dozens of such advances.  Also, showing how little we know is invaluable as well, because in shedding false theories we come closer to the truth.

2) Your strict definition of "proof" is absolutely unachievable by science.  There is concrete evidence that driving your SUV will cause global warming, though how catostrophic it will be depends on speculation.  Your SUV releases more CO2 than other vehicles, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, greenhouse gases are building up in the atmosphere, our planet is warming, greenhouses gases cause the planet to warm, therefore driving your SUV contributes to global warming in greater proportion than other vehicles will.  I don't know what more "proof" is required if you cannot accept logical lines of evidence that lead to a specific conclusion.

Finally, I disagree that I did not refute any of Bethell's points.  Perhaps you do not agree with my refutation, but that is your opinion to hold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,<br />
I disagree with your statement about what scientists accept as &#8220;fact.&#8221;  There is a lot of discussion about what scientists do, and there are some very outspoken ones who talk about scientific facts, but the truth is that science cannot produce anything other than observations and well-supported theories.  Evolution is such a very-well-supported theory, but it is not and will never be a fact in the colloquial sense of the word.  However, the scientific use of the word &#8220;theory&#8221; has a different meaning than the common usage as well.  </p>
<p>In response to your two points:<br />
1) The return on investment from &#8220;speculative research&#8221; is extremely debatable, and I think your statement that very little, even relatively, is being returned is absolutely untrue.  Basic research led to the creation of silicon microchips, an invention that has revolutionized our entire world.  I could surely list dozens of such advances.  Also, showing how little we know is invaluable as well, because in shedding false theories we come closer to the truth.</p>
<p>2) Your strict definition of &#8220;proof&#8221; is absolutely unachievable by science.  There is concrete evidence that driving your SUV will cause global warming, though how catostrophic it will be depends on speculation.  Your SUV releases more CO2 than other vehicles, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, greenhouse gases are building up in the atmosphere, our planet is warming, greenhouses gases cause the planet to warm, therefore driving your SUV contributes to global warming in greater proportion than other vehicles will.  I don&#8217;t know what more &#8220;proof&#8221; is required if you cannot accept logical lines of evidence that lead to a specific conclusion.</p>
<p>Finally, I disagree that I did not refute any of Bethell&#8217;s points.  Perhaps you do not agree with my refutation, but that is your opinion to hold.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-89</link>
		<author>Anonymous</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-89</guid>
		<description>You say that we haven't seen speciation events in the lab, but we have. The one I can think of off the top of my head is the fact that lab rabbits that have been bred in captivity for decades can't mate with wild rabbits of that were of the same species originally. There are other examples with less "advanced" organisms, but I can't think of them specifically right now, and I don't have time to Google it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say that we haven&#8217;t seen speciation events in the lab, but we have. The one I can think of off the top of my head is the fact that lab rabbits that have been bred in captivity for decades can&#8217;t mate with wild rabbits of that were of the same species originally. There are other examples with less &#8220;advanced&#8221; organisms, but I can&#8217;t think of them specifically right now, and I don&#8217;t have time to Google it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-88</link>
		<author>Mike</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anthonares.net/2005/12/pig-to-science-bethells-evolution.html#comment-88</guid>
		<description>I've read PIG to Science. I somehow found your blog through a link posted on amazon.com on the review page of the book. I haven't read all of your chapter by chapter reviews but I'd like to comment on this particular one. You've done a good job summurizing the chapter, however your response doesn't refute anything that was said in the book. 

"And, if similarity of ancestry is the simplest answer that provides the most explanatory power, it is probably the correct theory."

This comment of yours goes to the heart of what his book is trying to say, that today, too many scientists are taking theories with "the most explanatory power" as fact. They then pronounce them as fact for their own personal gain, whether it be for money or fame (you can't deny this doesn't happen in light of the recent korean cloning fiasco).

There are two main problems that 'right-wingers' have with this type of science.

1. A lot of money is being spent on speculative research that has produced very little (realitivly) e.g. embrionic stem-cell research &#38; Gnome project. All it has produced is to show how little we really do know.

2. This speculative science has become the new 'religion'... There is no concrete 'proof' that driving our SUV's are going to cause catastrophic global warming. Saying it is so isn't that much different than saying 'by angering the trees the volcano god is going to erupt and destroy your village'

Yes there are a lot of facts in regard to such things as stem-cell, evolution, global warming, etc. No mater how plausible the science seems, without proof it shouldn't dictate laws nor gather more money than it deserves. Scientific facts have been turned on their head too many times to not take caution in touting these facts to the public. Which is the main point of this book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read PIG to Science. I somehow found your blog through a link posted on amazon.com on the review page of the book. I haven&#8217;t read all of your chapter by chapter reviews but I&#8217;d like to comment on this particular one. You&#8217;ve done a good job summurizing the chapter, however your response doesn&#8217;t refute anything that was said in the book. </p>
<p>&#8220;And, if similarity of ancestry is the simplest answer that provides the most explanatory power, it is probably the correct theory.&#8221;</p>
<p>This comment of yours goes to the heart of what his book is trying to say, that today, too many scientists are taking theories with &#8220;the most explanatory power&#8221; as fact. They then pronounce them as fact for their own personal gain, whether it be for money or fame (you can&#8217;t deny this doesn&#8217;t happen in light of the recent korean cloning fiasco).</p>
<p>There are two main problems that &#8216;right-wingers&#8217; have with this type of science.</p>
<p>1. A lot of money is being spent on speculative research that has produced very little (realitivly) e.g. embrionic stem-cell research &amp; Gnome project. All it has produced is to show how little we really do know.</p>
<p>2. This speculative science has become the new &#8216;religion&#8217;&#8230; There is no concrete &#8216;proof&#8217; that driving our SUV&#8217;s are going to cause catastrophic global warming. Saying it is so isn&#8217;t that much different than saying &#8216;by angering the trees the volcano god is going to erupt and destroy your village&#8217;</p>
<p>Yes there are a lot of facts in regard to such things as stem-cell, evolution, global warming, etc. No mater how plausible the science seems, without proof it shouldn&#8217;t dictate laws nor gather more money than it deserves. Scientific facts have been turned on their head too many times to not take caution in touting these facts to the public. Which is the main point of this book.</p>
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